Episode Transcript
Speaker 1 (00:00)
Welcome to Calcio FC, your weekly dose of Italian football and culture. This week, we take a look at foreign ownership in Serie A and discuss whether the old lady needs a fresh approach. But first, it's Sampdoria. And to help me, David Ferrini I've got in the studio with me the resident writers of Destination Calcio, Emmet Gates and Dan Cancian. We're going to have a look at why Leonardo Semplici's side are struggling to find wins. No wins in 14, guys. Mr. Steven on Instagram, he says.
Never a dull day at Doria. Dan, take it away.
Speaker 2 (00:33)
Yeah, there has never been dull day at Doria, but there have been very grim days this season. As you said, no winning 14. It's hard to see where the wins are to come from. Samp can't stop conceding goals. They've conceded the second most in Serie B and they can't hang on to a lead for love, nor money. They dropped 21 points from winning positions, which explains why they are only three points off the bottom of the table.
And it's just plainly not where they wanted to be, they invested big money in the summer, everyone was looking forward to them being back in Serie A, or at least challenging for a promotion, but it's all gone pear-shaped, they're under the third manager of the season, it might not be the last.
Speaker 1 (01:12)
Yeah. I mean, ChittaCalcio cultural USA, one of our devout fans out there. If you haven't checked out his podcast, go and check it out. He talks about Chittadella De La, but he put up an interesting stat on X last week and he mentioned the running order of the teams that have lost. They've dropped the most points after being ahead. Some Sampdoria right up there and that were two nil ahead against Mantova on the weekend, the Depaoli Pauli, the captain scoring the brace and they just couldn't keep it together in the second half Dan
Speaker 2 (01:40)
Yeah, I think it's coming, it's got to the point where there's so much pressure on them, they even know when they do go ahead, they always have in the back of their minds, sort of like, well, we're going to crumble. And they do. And it becomes a self-fulfilling prophecy because, you know, they desperately need to win. But as I said, they can't go into a lead. You really, you can't see where the wins are going to come from. Beating Mantova away would have been a great result for them, given the way all the games went. But there is just...
They can't get over the hump and they've got lots of injuries to be fair to them, Tutino is out, lot of, know, Semplici's missing a of key players, but it's just not good enough for them, it's a club of their size.
Speaker 1 (02:23)
Niang coming in, new signing, coming back from his stint in Africa there. And we saw him at Empoli last year, scored a few goals there. That's what they brought him in for. He's now playing Serie B, previous star of Serie A, a couple of different phases. Now, third coach of the season, Leonardo Semplici in charge, still yet to get his first win in Serie B. Let's rewind time, Emmet, because...
Speaker 2 (02:28)
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (02:46)
At the start of this season for Destination Calcio, we went down to the south of Italy and Andrea Sottile hadn't been brought in. You saw Sottile in Genoa when we went there. But before that, Andrea Pirlo saw him in Salerno in that press conference. And it was that deadly day for him. They went down and then he was shortly dismissed after that. Have you seen any change in the style of play or I mean, in a microcosm, we could look at the season and say, well,
It started off brilliantly because they did okay in the first few weeks, a few positive results. But then we've seen that dip and now it's draw loss, draw loss, period of draws, another loss. What do make of this? And take us back to the start of the season when we were in Salerno there.
Speaker 3 (03:29)
Yeah, mean, we obviously were there for the 3-2 game and it ended up being Pirlo's last press conference in charge of Samp. I mean, I thought the decision was harsh considering the season was only three games in. You as you said, David, Sampdoria hadn't done too badly. And you do think it was a rash decision, you know, they brought in Sartile. The results didn't get any better, really. They haven't won since the end of October.
The state of play has generally got worse. When you looked at it at the beginning of the season, the Tutino and Massimo Coda and you're thinking, yeah, there's a lot of Serie B experience, they know how to score goals. You wouldn't necessarily thought that Samp would have been in the top two positions, but certainly good enough for a playoff place. But it's just the way the season's unfolded, it seems to be getting worse and worse by the week.
Speaker 1 (04:22)
Well, you look at this squad, they've reinforced at the beginning in this summer, they brought in on loan. They bought Iwanu in from Como with Bellemo. I mean, absolute soldiers of Serie B got Como promoted. Now, what is Matteo Manfredi? What direction is he going to take this club in? Because we know Sampdoria supporters, that's a huge club. It's in Serie B and it kind of brings you back to that Parma feel. They eventually got back up at Sampdoria.
We go back to a previous time when they got relegated maybe a couple of times ago in the early noughties. They had a Francesco Flachi type player. Now they've got Coda as you said, they brought in Tutino. The goals are not coming. Now Niang's there. Where's Manfredi going?
Speaker 3 (05:03)
Yeah, I'm not 100 % sure how they get out of the situation. He obviously, he's come into the club, you know he obviously he bought the club from Massimo Ferrero and the whole saga that went on there. And, you know, he's invested around 55 million euros in buying the club. They're looking to buy the Marassi with Genoa, but I think obviously this is Italy. There's ongoing problems with the city council and putting in a bid and...
I think there was an issue of Sampdoria and Genoa putting in the same amount of capital. There issues with that, has not been sorted, but I don't know where they go from here. think you would hope that Samp will stay in Serie B but as Dan alluded to, the results are not coming. They haven't a won since the end of October. I mean, yeah, like they're either drawn or losing. It's hard to see.
Speaker 1 (05:51)
Currently fifth last.
Speaker 3 (05:57)
It's hard to see where the turnaround will come. But I think Manfredi has said that he's in for the long haul. He sees a lot of potential in Sampdoria. He used to be in the Italian army and then he moved to London and he worked at PWC and Barclays. And he obviously has money. And as we've seen with scene with Niang, he's willing to do what it takes to get Samp for them to survive in Serie B. Then maybe focus on next season. But I do think...
chances of seeing Sampdoria Doria in Serie A are next season are very very slim. Unless they have a remarkable turnaround in the second half of the campaign.
Speaker 2 (06:34)
I know there are certain clubs, and I think Sampdoria are some already have one of them, where you look at them and you're thinking, they are too big to go down, you know, it's just not going to happen. Whether it's, you know, whether it's a club in Serie A or a club in top flight anywhere in Europe, you look at them and you're thinking, they can't possibly go down just because of their status, because of their history. And it's the same with Samp City, but they could actually go down. And we've seen it in England so many times, you big clubs like the Leeds, United Sheffield United, Sheffield Wednesday.
huge clubs, huge fan bases. They go down to second division, then they drop down to third division. And from then it's an incredibly difficult task to come back because yes, as Emmet pointed out, they've got lots of potential. They've sold over 18,000 season tickets this season. In Serie B, you need, it's an incredible amount of people to have in the ground, but that doesn't get you three points. No, it only takes you so far. And my worry with Samp Pesce is that yes, they've spent a lot of money,
but have they brought in too many players, I think you can make too many signings, if that's the case. And one criticism of Sottil was that he didn't know his best 11 because he just kept chopping and changing every week. And you need, if you look at the likes of Pisa, the likes of Sassuolo even the likes of Juve Stabia did they ever settle the 11?
Speaker 1 (07:51)
Let's rewind time if we go back 35 years back to when Diego was winning it for Napoli we saw their trajectory they went straight down within seven eight years it was all over for Napoli bankruptcy the rest of it it needed an Aurelio de la De Laurentiis type to bring them back and it took them 18 years after that to even win a Scudetto let's go to Sampdoria's rich history the 1990 cup winners cup the 1990-91 Scudetto four Coppa Italias and we saw Milan win the supercoppa a couple weeks back
They won the supercoppa. So that's how good they were. And you would expect them to at least be still up there in the definitely the top half of the of the table of of Serie A Fabio Quagliarella, one of their talisman for for what eight, nine seasons without him. I mean,
were relegated in his last season, but surely someone has to stand up now and take them forward. Let's see what they can do this weekend when they take on Cosenza But if you haven't seen the Serie B highlights, go and see Mantova Sampdoria on the DCTV app and also on our YouTube channel. Let's move along. This is the Calcio FC podcast with me, David Ferrini and Destination Calcio writers, Dan Cancian and Emmet Gates.
From a team who can't buy a win guys, to one who's just encountered their first league defeat of the season at the hands of the league leaders Napoli. Glorious win for them, comeback win at the Maradona. New signing, that's a kind of a fresh approach for Thiago Motta there, getting Kolo Muani in, scoring on debut. Not a bad first half there for Juventus, but I the stats tell a different story in the second half Emmet. I'm going to let you say your piece here, but Thiago Motta was the fresh approach, wasn't it?
At the beginning of the season, we've seen how many times the hashtag Allegriout out how many people have tweeted that I'm sure if you're probably watching this and you're a Juve of F and you've probably done it yourself. But Emmet, Thiago Motta is there. You've written about this on the destinationcalcio.com website. Take it away.
Speaker 3 (09:49)
I mean, where to begin?
Speaker 1 (09:52)
The
violin or?
Speaker 3 (09:55)
I mean, Thiago Motta was brought in and it was supposed to be a fresh approach after three years of Max Allagri minimalist approach to football and, know, Cortomuso winning by a horse's hair. Thiago Motta was supposed to be this new, not so much an evolution, but a revolution. you know, obviously he'd done great things with Bologna and he's come in and it's, yes, every manager needs time. But I think the fact that
Juve's sporting director Cristiano Giuntoli went out and spent over 200 million on players really hasn't did Thiago Motta any favors because again like we're talking about Zep... Zep... Yeah it adds a lot of pressure and he's constantly chopping and changes like Dan mentioned with Sottil he's constantly chopping and changes and not the formation but the players within the system and he hasn't got the best out of many of the players that they've signed you know Teun Koopmeiners Miners has
Speaker 1 (10:36)
pressure.
Speaker 3 (10:52)
come in for a lot of criticism from Juventini because he's been played too far forward and I wrote about this for Destination Calcio He's better in a double pivot, in a two further back where he can see more of the game. But he's playing with his back to goal and that doesn't feed into his characteristics. It's not what got him 15 goals in all competitions for Atalanta last season. But that's on Motta. Motta is not getting the best out of Koopmeiners Miners.
and Koopmeiners Miners was Juve's most expensive signing, 60 million and he's not seeing the best of them Douglas Luiz has hardly got a kick and could leave on loan back to the Premier League this before the end of the window there's rumours of Man City, there's rumours of Nottingham Forest but Douglas Luiz has suffered a lot and he was 50 million as well and Juve gave away two youngsters in the deal to sign Douglas Luiz but
Speaker 1 (11:37)
Big chunk of change.
Speaker 3 (11:45)
I feel for Douglas Luiz because he hasn't really been given a chance. I think he started two games all season. He's been injured, yes, but I feel like Thiago Motta hasn't done himself any favors by the constant changing and not using players in their proper positions. So a lot of people or a lot of Juventini think that if Allegri Agri had been given that 200 million, Juve would be in a lot better position. The football probably wouldn't be as attractive, not that Thiago Motta's
version of football is any more attractive but I think Allegri would get results. mean you may have drawn about 13 games this season you know yeah they suffered their first defeat against Napoli but you're not winning many games either you're not losing sure but you're not winning and football is all about winning.
Speaker 1 (12:31)
And I think that Venezia performance when they drew with the Venezia with that last gas penalty, that was a symptom of something perhaps is, you know, there's an infection in there. Maybe there's something in the dressing room that's really not, there's no connection there between some of the players. Dusan Vlahović, big money signing coming from Fiorentina side where he scored goals just as hobby. Hat-tricks and braces every week and with a side that doesn't have the depth of a Juventus.
Now just on the Koopmeiners miners issue, you want to play him as a double pivot. Can you see him forming an alliance with Locatelli? Because I remember the De Zerbi Sassuolo side, Locatelli was immense as a double pivot there. And Sassuolo went, you know, they qualified for Europe under De Zerbi there. Motta is that kind of coach. So can you see anything coming out of that? A double pivot, Locatelli, Koopmeiners miners, or maybe someone else in the lineup?
Speaker 3 (13:25)
I do
think that's the one thing I will give credit to Thiago Matta for is that Locatelli has arguably been Juve's best player this season. And you've seen the old Locatelli, know, at Sassuolo when he played in that double pivot. He has been fantastic, but it's usually alongside Khephren Thuram or Weston McKinney. He's rarely played Koopmeiners Miners in that double pivot. And all you Juventini I'd say the same thing that...
That is where Koopmeiners Miners best position was. That's where we seen him last season with Ederson when Atalanta won the Europa League. He's got 12 goals in Serie A. He was the top scorer midfielder. So you just think, why not try Koopmeiners Miners and La Locatelli in the double pivot and play someone else in the number 10 role? And going back to Vlahovic, I just think there's been a serious disconnect between Thiago Motta and Vlahovic because Thiago Motta wants more from the strikers.
than Allegri Ligarie did, obviously we've seen Joshua Zirkzee a Bologna last season, a striker that can come short, lay it off, Vlahovic doesn't do any of that.
Speaker 1 (14:30)
doesn't have that touch to distribute passes either, does he?
Speaker 3 (14:33)
Exactly.
He's just about putting the ball in the back of the net. And also when you play for Juventus and you're going to Empoli who have two banks of four and the space is tight, Vlahovic doesn't have the technique to dribble past a couple of players and put the ball in the back of the net. It's just not, he doesn't have that in his locker So I think at Fiorentina it maximized his skill set because teams would attack Fiorentina, they would leave the space, he would go in and score.
But you play differently and I think what Motta wants in a striker like Zirkzee Vlahovic doesn't have those characteristics. So it's not surprising that it looks like a divorce is on the cards in the summer. And also the fact that he's a highest paid player in Serie A, earning the earns around 12 million net this season.
Speaker 1 (15:18)
It's
big money for Serie A as well. Can't compete with the Premier League clubs either, so we could see him make a move. He has been linked with one in the past, but Vlahovic we've got Kolomuani in there,
Speaker 2 (15:30)
Yeah, I mean, I agree with a lot of what Emmet said. I feel for Motta in a way, like Vlahovic to start off with. It's not, I don't think he would have signed him, know, but he's basically, you know, Vlahovic is on the books. He's not going to go anywhere in Serie A because no one can afford him. And Motta's got to make the best of a bad situation. And as Emmet said, he's clearly not a player he wants. He doesn't fit his football fible.
I also think that Motta mod has been dealt a rough hand in a way because it's coming after Allegri, the honeymoon period was like, okay, you're not Max Allegri, which is great, you know, and he had just like maybe a month, maybe two months where everyone was just over the moon with him not being Allegri. But then he went from, okay, you're not Allegri, great, to well, show us the revolution we've been promised. And I don't think he ever promised a revolution or if he did, it was gonna take time. And you know, he's just not had enough time to implement.
system of football think it's got signings that you need to blend in with the existing players and as we know at Juventus you don't really move players in and out of the starting eleven. There's a lot of pressure behind the scenes you know there's people, players who have been there long before they arrived and I think that it's also an element of what have you done you know who are you you're Thiago Motta Chagamata yeah you've done well on your last season but you're not a world-class manager. Not, at least not yet.
You're not like Jose Mourinho, you're not like Simone Inzaghi coming in, you've won trophies before, you can say, OK, this is my team, I'm going to go ahead with my philosophy and whatever the consequences. It doesn't have the option. And I think you can see with Juve but you will see on Saturday, the moment Juve went ahead, Napoli, this is probably one of the first Juve games I've seen in a long time where you never thought Napoli weren't going to come back. There is no...
There's no order about them, you when they go ahead, they're always thinking, okay, they are they going to hang on to lead. It's just, you know, it doesn't feel like they are the Juventus of obvious going by.
Speaker 1 (17:29)
No shots in the second half. may have thought it was a Allegri ball for a while.
Speaker 2 (17:32)
Well exactly, that's the thing, like you know if that was Allegri legality he would have been crucified for that.
Speaker 1 (17:37)
Do you think it was preservation just trying to lock up a result, anything but a loss was okay for Motta. Take it back home. It's a league leaders. It's an away game.
Speaker 2 (17:45)
I think he was and I think that goes to show what I was saying about his mentality. I think he may be a world-class manager in the making, but he doesn't think like the manager of a top club.
Speaker 3 (17:56)
Well, it's also that point that Dan's touched on, that former Juventus players have come out in the last past couple of weeks, Alessandro Berindelli, Angelo Delivio, they've said that Thiago Motta is not obsessed with winning, which is what Juve's mantra is all about. It's about winning. It's not about style. It's about substance. But Thiago Motta doesn't have that in his locker yet. And that's what you need at Juventus. As both of you pointed out, the aura has gone. You never felt like...
when Juve took the lead against Napoli that it was convincing that Juve would, if that had have been under Allegri, you probably would have said, yeah, they'll hang on just about, but they don't have this, this version of Juventus does not have that obsession of winning.
Speaker 1 (18:37)
Time to get your views about what you think about culture. Serie A, Serie B, Serie C doesn't matter. Get on our social media platforms, Facebook, X, Instagram, get there, get involved. Anthony Dezino on Facebook. He says, this is truly awesome. Just found the app last night and watched the full replay of a game. Serie B, of course, such a great league. I'm a Calcio fanatic. Inter Milan is my team, but love seeing the lower levels of Italian football. Don't we all?
FIFA Plus, can watch Serie C on that. Of course, we are the official broadcaster of Serie B Destination Calcio or TV app. Let's move along. And also make sure you get your second team. Everyone needs a second team in Serie B. If you don't have one in Serie B, go and get one. Ryan on X with Kyle Walker joining Milan. Boys, I'll throw this to you. Can you say which Italian players will have the most success having gone the other way? Federico Chiesa at Liverpool. Emmet.
Speaker 3 (19:29)
Well, I think we can safely say it won't be Federico Chiesa at Liverpool. He has massively struggled to adjust to the pace of the Premier League. He's only played 190 minutes in all competitions. I think he got his first start against Accrington Stanley in the FA Cup. He...
Chiesa never really recovered from his cruciate ligament injury. He was in and out of the Juve team. Arne Slot gave him extra time to prepare to get to the grips with the pace of the league. So I don't think Chiesa time at Liverpool is going to be judged as success.
Speaker 1 (20:02)
Well, I mean, let's throw back to the 90s, the days where Serriau players used to go over there and just carve up, light it up. The English first division, the Premier League was a different animal back then. Gianluca Vialli, Roberto Di Matteo, Fabrizio Ravinelli, goals galore. Now we've got Sandro Tonali and Ricardo Calafiori Dan.
Speaker 2 (20:19)
Yeah, Tonali has been superb for Newcastle this season. I think when you look at the way Newcastle struggled last season, you realise how important he is in that midfield, because it's a physical midfield with, you know, Guimaraes and Joelinton it's just been... Tonali's looked like he's never been away.
Speaker 3 (20:37)
His goal at the weekend.
Speaker 1 (20:39)
movement off the ball
Speaker 2 (20:40)
He has added goals to his game, which I think is what Eddie Howe made clear at start of the season, that he wants the midfield to contribute with goals and he's definitely done it. And, you know, conversely, you look at AC Milan's midfield and you realise, you know, how could they do with Tonali in their midfield? Calafiori has been... He's not been brilliant, I wouldn't say. It's hard for him to get regular football at Arsenal because Arsenal was such a settled back four.
When he's played, he's done okay, he's come up with a couple of crucial goals, scored at the weekend against Wolves.
Speaker 3 (21:15)
wasn't that a goal against Man City? He scored
Speaker 2 (21:17)
Well,
this season? He scored against Wolves. He's doing okay. I don't think we can say that he's been superb, but he's definitely been a positive for Arsenal I think the player who's actually the Serie A import, who's not Italian, but he's doing the best in the Premier League, is Justin Kluivert because he's got 11 goals in 22 for Bournemouth.
Speaker 1 (21:38)
And it was a slow rise, wasn't it? That crescendo now that we see.
Speaker 2 (21:42)
Yeah,
it was. He was with Roma obviously in 2019. He went on loan to three different clubs, picked up by Bournemouth. Yeah, he's been superb as, you know, Huysens, his teammate Again he was at Roma, was at Juventus next-gen. Was let go for about £9m and he's been probably one of the best centre-backs in the league this season to the point where Juventus have been linked with him.
Speaker 1 (21:48)
Go the Cherries!
Speaker 3 (22:05)
did see that, Juve have been linked they just sold him
Speaker 2 (22:08)
Yeah, no, it's It's bizarre, but yeah, he's been superb.
Speaker 1 (22:17)
We always like to bring you a deeper dive into specific topics here on Calcio FC. Joining me David Ferrini is Emmet Gates and Dan Cancian. We're going to talk about American investment, foreign investment, but mainly American because they have the majority stake now of Serie A, you would say, nine American owners in Serie A are, there's a couple of others Canadian and also Indonesian. Let's touch on, we'll talk about three of those American owned clubs. Dan, which one are going to talk about?
Speaker 2 (22:46)
Well, I think like the Friedkin group at Roma are fascinating for a variety of reasons. Obviously they came in 2020, they spent 460 million on taking over the club. And I think the jury is very much out on them. They've obviously, you know, they've just purchased Everton. The jury is out on them there as well. Although they probably have more credit in the bank at Everton. That's brave
It is. I mean, it's also bizarre when you think about it, because obviously we know of club owning like all the clubs like set being a case in point, you know, they own Palermo, Everton and Roma. They could have actually play in Europe against each other in, you know, maybe not next season, but in a couple of seasons, they they could face each other in Europe. it's a strange paradox where you have a company that owns two such massive clubs in two of the biggest leagues in Europe. I mean,
When they took over Everton, everybody rushed to sort of compare Roma under the Friedkin group to what Everton may look like. What are they doing to Roma? Well, they've had a bit of a tough time, haven't they? They've got Paulo Fonseca in, then he was gone. And the issues this season have been well documented, you know, with De Rossi, who replaced Mourinho last season, was gone after one month. Juric came in, he lasted less than, well...
50 days or something and he was gone as well. And now they brought Ranieri in. So I think the Friedkin group have said that like they, Roma was very much a learning curve for them in football.
Speaker 1 (24:19)
Did common sense prevail with him with Ranieri?
Speaker 2 (24:23)
I don't know whether common sense prevailed, short-termism definitely prevailed.
Speaker 1 (24:27)
Or do you think it was it was a matter of we need to save face here? I mean, yeah, I think.
Speaker 3 (24:31)
There was
an element of that, okay, we need to get the Roman boy in, the fans won't get angry at and it kind of deflects off us then because we brought back Ranieri.
Speaker 2 (24:41)
Yeah, I
think that's an interesting element about them because one of the criticisms that has been aimed at them is that they don't really know who they're dealing with. You know Roma, they basically... I think that they misjudged how much the fans mean to Roma and the delicate environment within the fans and the club themselves, you know. They got rid of De Rossi after four games this season. And that was after he came in to replace Mourinho last season and he did really, well, you know took them to a European semifinal.
and then they got rid of him and they had a revolt effectively on their hands
Speaker 3 (25:16)
I think the thing was they sacked De Rossi and there was so much backlash because I think De Rossi basically lost a political battle behind the scenes with the sporting director and such was the anger towards her that she also resigned and she had to get police protection from the Romanisti. I think the Friedkins as you said Dan underestimated the sheer passion and the size of Roma and I think for a while they did get it right in terms of ownership but I think this season they've really let themselves
Speaker 2 (25:43)
Yeah, I think they misjudged it definitely. But on the other hand, they spent a lot of money, this summer, they spent 100 million and that is something that it's rare to see in Serie A these days. We were talking about foreign owners, there are other foreign owners that have not been anywhere near as happy to spend money.
Speaker 1 (26:05)
And do you think Roma supporters might be a little bit disgruntled that they've gone and spent some money in the Premier League on Everton?
Speaker 2 (26:12)
Well, you probably would be, wouldn't you? I do, and you know, they are very much aware of anyone who comes in with big promises. To be fair to the Friedkin Group, they have not actually made any particular promises yet about Everton, which I think is a refreshing change for those of you know, for Evertonians. But you would be disgruntled if you were a Roma fan, because I mean, the Friedkin Group are obviously very well off, you know, if you can buy two football clubs, you've got deep pockets.
Speaker 1 (26:14)
Well you know a few Evertonians
Speaker 2 (26:41)
But how deep do your pockets need to be to compete in two leagues like that? you're not going to get away with signing players for 20 million quid in the Premier League if you want Everton not to be fighting to avoid relegation every season. Likewise, if you're a Roma fan, are you going to be happy with players coming in for like 10, 15 million quid?
Speaker 1 (26:58)
There could be fears that Roma could become a satellite club. Let's move on just quickly. We should mention that Everton there was a fight between well, I don't know if there was a fight, but that we're definitely negotiating at the table at the same time that the triple seven group was trying to get it. The former general as we should mention no longer American owned Genoa. They are now owned by the Romanians. Dan Sucu
Speaker 2 (27:20)
I believe that's how you pronounce it.
Speaker 1 (27:22)
sure apologies out there if you're watching Mr. President but so Genoa now owned by Romanians. have a list of American owners you'd like to talk about which club
Speaker 3 (27:34)
Fiorentina, I think they have been interested in under Rocco Commisso know, he's obviously Italian American. lived in the States from Calabria. He lived there until he was 11 or 12 and then immigrated to America, built up his fortune, founded MediaCom and then decided to come back and put some money back into his country.
Speaker 1 (27:54)
great American dream
and then he comes back.
Speaker 3 (27:56)
Exactly and he bought Fiorentina I think it was in 2019, 2020 and he has put his money in, he's built the Viola Park for think was 80 or 90 million euros, it's one of the best training facilities in Italy.
Speaker 1 (28:10)
funded it with bit of that Chiesa to Juventus sale as well.
Speaker 3 (28:12)
Yeah, Vlahovic
probably too. But I think Commisso has been exasperated by his attempts to build a new stadium in Florence, just like every other owner of Italian clubs. There's political fights with the government and promises that go broken. But Commisso is definitely not afraid to speak his mind. He has shown his frustration with how things are done in Italy. Even Lega Serie A meetings where apparently
He said that it's five minutes of actually talking about issues and then the next 55 minutes is just battles back and forth and discussions and nothing ever gets sorted. So he has been, obviously, if you do business in America where things get done and then you transfer that to Italy where things often don't get done, he has found it a very frustrating time. But, he has put his, again, like Dan said about the Friedkins he's put his money where his mouth is. He has, he steadied the ship.
You know, terms of your other finances are very good. They're now, you know, on their Raffaele Palladino. They're kind of pushing for a Europa League spot. They've got the two conference league finals in succession, lost them both, but they still got there. So I do think Commisso is one of the better American owners that's been in Italian football. Yeah. And I think obviously, as you know, the viewers will have, will have seen the Artemio Franchi is actually undergoing construction now, but there is 55 million that's missing.
Speaker 1 (29:29)
There's a long term vision, isn't there?
Speaker 3 (29:39)
because the EU pulled funding. But there are discussions with Commisso and the council in Florence, but Commisso wants basically the whole project supposed to cost 100 million. He said he will upfront the rest, but he wants concessions that he wants to own the Franchi for 50 years. And obviously take all the matchday revenue that comes with that and being able to add in shops and modernize it, whether that happens or not.
I'm not really sure, yeah, Commisso I think is definitely one of the better owners.
Speaker 1 (30:09)
And it should take him through an tiny little nest egg to take him through to about 130 years old.
Speaker 2 (30:13)
I mean, when you compare it, as Emmet has said, Americans, when they build new stadiums, for example, for the NFL, and trying to build a stadium in Italy, I call it literally chalk and cheese because a lot of NFL stadiums are funded by the American equivalent of the local authority. So it's a large portion of the bill The stadiums are always built on time. They are stunningly modern facilities. And then you get
these elements in Italy where he may have to pay out of his own pocket for a stadium that then he may not even be able to use.
Speaker 1 (30:45)
We've
got this issue in Fiorentina, with Fiorentina in Florence. Rome also looking to get a new stadium in there. been proposals, plans, San Siro. Let's get on the subject of Milan. We know that Inter now is being, I guess with the Suning issues, it fell back to Oatree. But with AC Milan, we are in a situation where they're also American owned. Gerry Cardinale, Redbirds and...
It's not going too bad there, at least on the books. They made a profit last year at 4 million euros they cleared from the latest reports on the Calcio e Finanza. So it's going well there. They didn't even have to sell Rafael Leao to make the big bucks. So they've done well. Haven't made a massive profit. I think the most profitable was Napoli. And this week we've got a situation where Milan with a new coach.
probably there's a bit of a crisis there in terms of the results on the pitch, but they've got a chance to make it three derby wins over Inter in a row this season. And they've got a chance to prove the naysayers wrong. A chance for Zlatan Ibrahimovic, who is the front man, he's the senior advisor to Gerry Cardinale, to say his piece, maybe.
You can see those looks that he, you know, he's sitting in the stands during the game. He's a very serious character. We all know that he likes to joke off the pitch in the dressing room. He's kind of their spiritual leader. They've now taken him out of that playing role. He's the front man. He's taken over from the great Paolo Maldini. That's what the Cardinale were brave enough to do that. And I don't know if if a Silvio Berlusconi if he was still in charge of Milan, would he have made that decision to take out a Paolo Maldini type?
I'm just not sure.
Speaker 2 (32:40)
I don't think that if Berlusconi was still in charge of Milan, he would have been happy with not spending over 20 million pounds on a striker for years as they've done now. But hey, as a fan, if you're a Milan fan, you're disappointed with it. There's no, you know, there is no two ways about it. You you want the team to compete right at the top. But there is also the other side of the coin, the Cardinales are saying, "Well, we can compete if we keep splashing money, but then it's going to come to a point where financial fair play is going to sort of, know.
come into play and we are literally we're not going to be able to compete. Not because we can't, but because we won't be allowed to take part in European competitions." So you can see why the the balance books are so important for them. It's just difficult though for when you look at the way Milan, you know, carried on for 40 years, you know, spending. No, I'm not talking about spending, by the way, I'm not talking about spending like Man City or PSG, you know, but they were big spenders.
Speaker 1 (33:38)
They don't have
the ability either. They don't have the bank accounts for that.
Speaker 2 (33:42)
No, Berlusconi said it when he sold it. That, you know, football was too expensive. And if it was too expensive for him, you know, who owned, media companies, a real estate and all that.
Speaker 1 (33:52)
he sold it and then he went back to the moneyball approach of going to get a third division club and bring them up back into Serie A. And I guess when you want to take that transpose it into the Cardinale situation, Redbird situation, they've done that with Milan, they've come in and they bought it for a certain fee, they believe it's going to be valued at a specific amount or that it should be valued as at a specific amount. And that's where they're looking to the future they can see into the future something that perhaps Milan fans can't.
They've got Ibrahimović involved there and we're going to see how that plays out for the rest of the season because they need to move up if they want to play Champions League football at the end of this season. They need to be there again for the Champions League next season. That's going to bring in a whole another revenue.
Speaker 3 (34:34)
But I think even at this stage they've earned around 65 million euros. So if they don't qualify next season, that's a massive amount of money.
Speaker 2 (34:41)
It would be difference
between them becoming a selling club and actually being able to build on whatever platform they are trying to put together now. Because Conceicao is only under contract until the end of the season. And that is a lot of uncertainty around him. Not in terms that Milan will get rid of him. But if you are a manager, you want to have certain sort of, you know...
You want to know what you're going to be doing in six months, 12 months down the line. And if Milan kind of they don't know what they're going to be able to make signings, you can't plan ahead. If you can't plan ahead, then is the manager going to commit to a long term project?
Speaker 1 (35:16)
the benefits of foreign ownership into Serie A, we can see them now. At least I think they'll be brave enough. Maybe they've come in not knowing how Italy functions to the umpteenth degree, because we know it can be slow and tiresome and can really grind you down just as a day to day Italian. But, you know, coming in, they're willing to splash a bit of cash to throw at the council's some some legal disputes, at least to hash this out, try and get some stadiums going or renovate some stadiums, bring
that I don't want to say American game day mentality. You know, I'm not sure it's going to go to that level. I don't know if the Italians, the core of the fans that go to these games, they're Italian citizens. They're not used to the fanfare and the big Super Bowl style events, but just tweaking it a little bit to make it more appealing for the foreign fan. You know, we really do encourage people that live in the UK, the U.S. Yes, watch Serie B on the Destination Calcio TV app, but if you want to go to Italy.
We're also paving that way for you. We're trying to help you out with a few of our articles that we've done in the past of the Calcio Weekenders and the binge. We really recommend you to go and experience that in Italy. The food, everything sensational there. And I guess these foreign owners are helping pave that way into the country. Inter American owned, Milan American owned. They're about to go at it this weekend. We're going to be there boys. The Milan Derby della Madonnina. So you pumped?
Speaker 2 (36:42)
Oh, looking forward to just a little bit. Yeah, yeah. It's bucket list stuff the Milan Derby, isn't it? I've been to the San Siro watching football before, I've never got to see the Milan Derby.
Speaker 1 (36:51)
We got there earlier in the season. If you haven't seen it go and check out our socials rewind scroll down have a look at our Instagram also our Twitter. Follow us please subscribe on YouTube and download the app of course. Emmet what was your favorite thing about the last time we were there? Just is it your favorite ground? I believe it is. Yeah, it's
Speaker 3 (37:09)
I've
been to lot of stadiums all over the world, but San Siro still, for all the rough around the edges feel to it, it's still just when you come out of the subway and you just see this mammoth spaceship in front of you with the red girders on top and the swirls, don't know what the architectural name for them are, but you know what I mean? I'm not going to get a job in architecture anytime soon.
Speaker 1 (37:36)
We'll be doing that. We'll be taking Dan this weekend. We did go at the start of the season. We went to Novara for the Serie A Legends game to see Roberto Baggio. Yes. We also went to the museum at the San Siro. So there is a museum at the San Siro. It's going to be a massive game.
into the away side Milan the home side, huge, huge occasion. Follow us on our socials as we go through Milan. We're gonna be there all week. And we will take you through it next week when we're back for the podcast might even have a little bonus pod for you. Everything you need to know about Milan coming up. I think we'll leave it there boys back next week. That's it from me, David Ferini, Emmet Gates and Dan Cancian in the studio today. You can contact us on all our personal X accounts or go to Destination Calcio page at destination.
at DSTN Calcio different amount of characters you can have on Twitter for everything Italian football and culture at DSTN Calcio Looking ahead on the TV Destination Calcio website, the app you can watch Serie B this week and three games might go through a list of the games before we go because we've got a massive one on Friday night. Be sure to join us every Thursday, of course, Pisa This is the Pisa shirt here. Drop the pen.
Pisa, this is match worn boys up against Palermo. This is match worn as well. We might just put these down and have a look. Le Douaron up against Touré. This is what we're doing this week. And we can smell the sweat on these match worn. We brought them in for you. And I think we'll give these away at some stage during the season as well. So Pisa hosting. It's Pippo Inzaghi, isn't it? Up against Alessio Dionisi. They've just got in Magnani as one of their latest defenders.
find out all the news we do write ups on Serie B as well. These two fine journalists doing that. So be sure to join us every Thursday on Apple podcasts, on Spotify, YouTube. For the next Calcio FC podcast, I'm David Ferrini. So thanks for joining. Thanks to Emmet Gates and Dan Cancian. And remember, the destination is always Calcio
Speaker 2 (39:40)
Bye!
